Results for Saturday 5th July
Okay, here are today’s results – Sat 5th July.
Among the questions we received some asked about stake levels and the length of time it is necessary to be at the computer. So today, to show the effect of being more conservative, we reduced stakes to £200 per bet and spent only just over an hour on Betfair.
Profit for the day, - £306.75
- Saturday 5th July
Okay, enough of you have let us know that you are interested in Raj’s methods so we are working on a proposal for you to consider next week. Tonight it’s really late and I’m really tired so please bear with us a day or two whilst we work out the details.
Add comment July 5, 2008
First answers to your questions.
Wow, well my post this morning certainly seems to have raised some interest.
So far I’ve received at least a couple of hundred Emails, nearly all favourably interested in more in information about place market betting on Betfair. If you’ve written with a particular question I hope you’ll understand why it may not be possible for me to reply to everyone in person. There just aren’t enough hours in the day.
Still we will try to pick out the most popular points and see what we can do to provide some further enlightenment on this blog.
Probably the most common question that has arisen is “Are we about to offer a book or service based on this information – and what’s the deal?”
Well, I can honestly say at the moment we’re not offering any kind of deal. I won’t pretend it hasn’t crossed our minds and the number of people who have asked has rather reinforced the idea that we ought to work with at least a few clients to offer more information. If we do then it will probably be for a limited number of people. But we’ll have to think about that over the weekend.
First ‘though it seems I owe you some answers to a few questions. Let’s see what we can do.
1) Has this method been tested over a longer time and on other days of the week?
Well, I did say in the first post that after me badgering him to put his claims to the test Raj did promise to dedicate an account to the method and (I felt a bit half heartedly) did play the place market for a few consecutive week days. I should give you these results because they give a fuller picture.
Here’s a graph of his cumulative profits from when he started on 10th of June though to the 18th.
Profits from 10th to 18th June
I wouldn’t want you to think I’m suggesting that Raj’s Place Bet method is totally infallible for every bet. This is the real world and we are bound to expect some losers along the way. I think these results are interesting ‘though because they do show how relatively safe this method of betting is. Even though there are three days with modest losses it all comes back pretty quickly.
Over the week there’s still £835 profit.
Here’s a link to the actual profit and loss screen shots from Betfair for each day. As you can see, there are only roughly one to four bets a day, most days. There could well have been more opportunities.
http://www.rajpatel.co.uk/juneplace.html
Can this be done without the need to sit at the PC before the race?
Well “No and Yes”. Raj’s method is to place his bets in the 10 minutes or so before the race. This is because the place market tends to be not as ‘liquid’ as the straight back to win and most of the punters’ money appears online in these few minutes before the race. This will certainly be the time when prices tend to move the most and it can be advantageous to watch if a price is drifting to catch it at its most advantageous value.
That said, you could certainly make a decision as to what price you were prepared to accept on a race and place your order well before the race. It would mean you may not get matched if you don’t have the time to monitor what’s happening and the price does not drift out far enough to meet you – but then that’s a bet that you certainly can’t lose!
How much is Raj staking per bet? is he using a staking plan? Do you have to use particular stakes or will it work with any bank?
As you can see from the detailed Betfair screenshots in the link above, Raj’s stake for this demo was £300 per bet. He used a flat staking scheme so there was no “loss recovery” involved nor any creative escalation of stakes.
We’d probably recommend a ten point bank (i.e. divided your total bank by 10 and use 1/10 on each bet. Of course not everyone would want to use such a level of stake, but of course the idea would work with say £30 or £50 a bet. The profit would be in proportion.
There is always a lot to be said for starting cautiously whenever you try a new betting scheme. If it is provend to be something you want to continue with you can always re-invest your profits to achieve higher stakes without risking your initial capital.
Does this work in the USA?
Well, technically Yes – but of course you will need an account with www.betfair.com or at least a service that will accept pure place bets. Unfortunately, due to the USA “Wire Wager Act”, Betfair will not accept accounts from anyone actually betting from within US territory. If anyone has a legal work-around for this problem then I’m sure we’ll all be interested to know about it.
So, feel free to keep those questions coming. The Email address is:
For those who actually want to know how to do it we’ll see what we can offer over the next few days.
Best regards and good fortune.
PAUL BRANSTON
Add comment July 5, 2008
I almost had to shake him to make him do this.
Struggling to make betting profits. Here’s some food for thought.
It took me a long time to talk Raj into doing this. He kept telling me it was “too easy”. He said, “Where’s the challenge”. He may be a friend but when he showed me these results I thought he was out of his mind.
Anyway, So that you understand what I’m talking about, here are a couple of screen shots from one of Raj’s Betfair accounts.
How were your betting results for the last couple of Saturdays? Would this sort of strike rate be of interest to you?
Saturday 21 June. 9 Bets, 8 wins, 1 Loser, £911.18 profit
Or how about this one for last week?
28 June, 7 wins, no losers, £828.68 profit.
Relax. I’ve got nothing to sell here. I want to share these thoughts about stopping losing money and to make steady profits using the place market. You can let me know if you want to know more.
I wanted to share this info with you because it came out of a conversation I had with Raj about six weeks ago. We were talking about the various betting methods we’ve published over the past seven years. Methods that involve lay betting (Losers into Winners), dutching (3M Method), trading (Bet Trader Professional) or betting in running (Racing Cash Machine).
Which of these I asked did he think were most relevant to today, now that Betfair.com has grown out of all recognition from what it was when we published the first lay betting book on the Internet – “Losers into Winners” back in 2000.
We’d been talking for a good half an hour when Raj said something like, “Well of course the most obvious way to make a killing these days is in the Betfair place market”. (By that of course he means betting that a horse will come in either 1st, 2nd or 3rd).
“What do you mean?”, I said. “Why is this an obvious way to make a killing? Surely the odds are so low on the well fancied horses you still can’t make a decent long term profit”.
He said – “No, that’s what most people think, and the way most people bet that’s probably right – they don’t make a profit. With just a bit of knowledge ‘though you can make place market profits in your sleep. Or at the very least you’ll never lose your bank with a run of bad luck.”
Now frankly I didn’t know why he was suddenly saying that. I knew from seeing Raj’s accounts over years that he rarely bet on the place market, prefering outright wins.
“Why”, I said, “if you think place betting is such an opportunity don’t you do it more often?”
He said something like, “Well, it’s just too easy to win isn’t it – where’s the challenge in that?”
I have to say that sounded like one of the daftest viewpoints I’ve ever heared. Firstly if there were an easy way to make consistent betting profits wouldn’t you just do it anyway? Why do you want a challenge when it comes to making money? I’d take the money and run.
Secondly, although I respect Raj’s knowledge on betting more than almost anyone else I know, I thought he was really over simplifying the issue. I’ve seen many folk lose their shirt on place and old fashioned “each way” bets just as much as on straight back to wins.
I said okay then, can you prove that this is really a good and workable way for the average betting man to really make regular profits. Instead of your usual big mix of bets, backs, lays and trades, why don’t you dedicate an account to showing what you can do with place bets. Put your money where your mouth is.
He said okay, no problem.
At first I think he kind of played at it for a week, but still made a profit of about £800 with place only bets. Then he said, ‘okay, we’ll do this Saturday with all the opportunities going and I’ll show you what you can do’.
Well, that was June 21st as you can see above. I was impressed with 8 wins out of nine, place market or not, and the profit of nearly a grand ought to interest anyone for an afternoon’s work.
But that could have been a flash in the pan, so I said, “Okay, if Saturdays are so good for this then do it again next week”.
As you can see from the next screen shot he did – this time seven winners and no losers for over £800 profit.
Okay I said, there’s got to be something here that our subscribers will be interested in. Even if you had a bit of luck on your side over these three weeks this has got to show at least you’ve got a very safe selection method here. It can’t be that easy or everyone would already be doing it.
As you would expect, he said, “Yes, it IS easy – when you know what you’re doing. You can’t just bet a favourite to place and expect to make real money (Obvious!). Like any kind of bet you’ve got to know how to find ‘value’ and you’ve got to pick the right kind of race. But when you know what to look for it’s not difficult. When all you need is for your selection to come in the first three places it’s bound to send your strike rate through the roof – just so long as you’re using intelligence to pick your selections.
Okay, I’ve written enough for now.
I just wanted to open the subject up.
You tell me, would you be interested in hearing more about Raj’s selection methods for the place market?
If you’re already making huge profits yourself then you may say “what’s the fuss”. On the other hand I’m guessing you’ll be as intrigued to know more as I was.
I’ve opened a special Email address if you’d like to comment or want to know more.
You could also bookmark this blog.
Cheers for now.
PAUL
2 comments July 4, 2008
